Comments for Bill Easums Observations http://ebablog.easumbandy.com The unmotivated are oblivious to the obvious Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:04:52 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.3 Comment on The Conversations of Our Times: Part two by admin http://ebablog.easumbandy.com/20080826/the-conversations-of-our-times-part-two/#comment-934 admin Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:38:00 +0000 http://ebablog.easumbandy.com/20080826/the-conversations-of-our-times-part-two/#comment-934 My good friend and partner, http://www.billtennybrittian.com/, is correct about the Emergents. However, I dont remember mentioning the Incarnational folks, yet. I will do that next week. My good friend and partner, http://www.billtennybrittian.com/, is correct about the Emergents. However, I dont remember mentioning the Incarnational folks, yet. I will do that next week.

]]> Comment on The Conversations of Our Times: Part two by admin http://ebablog.easumbandy.com/20080826/the-conversations-of-our-times-part-two/#comment-933 admin Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:30:07 +0000 http://ebablog.easumbandy.com/20080826/the-conversations-of-our-times-part-two/#comment-933 Bill T. thats why I say they remind me more of philosophers than pastors or theologians. They seem to be applealing more to the head crowd than the average person Bill T. thats why I say they remind me more of philosophers than pastors or theologians. They seem to be applealing more to the head crowd than the average person

]]> Comment on The Conversations of Our Times: Part two by Bill T-B http://ebablog.easumbandy.com/20080826/the-conversations-of-our-times-part-two/#comment-932 Bill T-B Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:19:55 +0000 http://ebablog.easumbandy.com/20080826/the-conversations-of-our-times-part-two/#comment-932 My main issue with the Emergents has less to do with their theology ... talk to three emergent practitioners and you'll get at least four theological strands out of the conversation ... and more to do with the whole direction the leadership has taken. I believe the Emergent movement started well. They were willing to abandon as much of Modernity's trappings and traditions as they could in order to experiment with different models, forms, organizational structures, etc. The Emergents gave us excellent terms like Incarnational Church (which I believe is much more orthodox than you give credit for, Bill) and Organic Church. They helped the more traditional church take a look at practices, both ancient, pre-Reformation, and Reformation era. Here's where I take issue. Like most organizations, the Emergent movement has left it's first love. It was once a movement of the grass roots reaching real people. Today the movement is one of verbiage and verbosity. It's moved from the supremely practical to the ivory towers of accademia and scholarly rhetoric. Do we need accademecians? Absolutely. But the biggest bang we need to be hearing from the Emergent group is about how to effectively introduce Jesus Christ to the pre-Christian or post-Christian or post modern or whatever moniker you want to use this week. Bill Tenny-Brittian Senior Consultant Easum, Bandy & Tenny-Brittian <a href="http://www.billtennybrittian.com" rel="nofollow">Blog</a> My main issue with the Emergents has less to do with their theology … talk to three emergent practitioners and you’ll get at least four theological strands out of the conversation … and more to do with the whole direction the leadership has taken. I believe the Emergent movement started well. They were willing to abandon as much of Modernity’s trappings and traditions as they could in order to experiment with different models, forms, organizational structures, etc. The Emergents gave us excellent terms like Incarnational Church (which I believe is much more orthodox than you give credit for, Bill) and Organic Church. They helped the more traditional church take a look at practices, both ancient, pre-Reformation, and Reformation era.

Here’s where I take issue. Like most organizations, the Emergent movement has left it’s first love. It was once a movement of the grass roots reaching real people. Today the movement is one of verbiage and verbosity. It’s moved from the supremely practical to the ivory towers of accademia and scholarly rhetoric.

Do we need accademecians? Absolutely. But the biggest bang we need to be hearing from the Emergent group is about how to effectively introduce Jesus Christ to the pre-Christian or post-Christian or post modern or whatever moniker you want to use this week.

Bill Tenny-Brittian
Senior Consultant
Easum, Bandy & Tenny-Brittian
Blog

]]> Comment on The Conversations of Our Times: Part two by Richard H http://ebablog.easumbandy.com/20080826/the-conversations-of-our-times-part-two/#comment-929 Richard H Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:56:04 +0000 http://ebablog.easumbandy.com/20080826/the-conversations-of-our-times-part-two/#comment-929 Several years ago when I was visiting an Emergent congregation (though before the name Emergent took center stage), the leaders commented to me that their main constituency was "burned out baptists." While the Emergent folks I've spoken with over the years are Jesus oriented people, their public persona and "Emergentness" does seem to be tied to a reaction against a constricted Evangelical background/upbringing. Most the non-Christians out there lack a desire or don't get the need to Emerge from traditional Evangelicalism. As one who has tried to be an evangelical United Methodist, many of my responses to the movement have gone one of two directions: (1) Maybe you could learn from the Wesleyan tradition, and (2) How can I distinguish your theological trajectory from that which took United Methodism to where it is now (which to me, is an unhappy place)? Several years ago when I was visiting an Emergent congregation (though before the name Emergent took center stage), the leaders commented to me that their main constituency was “burned out baptists.” While the Emergent folks I’ve spoken with over the years are Jesus oriented people, their public persona and “Emergentness” does seem to be tied to a reaction against a constricted Evangelical background/upbringing.

Most the non-Christians out there lack a desire or don’t get the need to Emerge from traditional Evangelicalism. As one who has tried to be an evangelical United Methodist, many of my responses to the movement have gone one of two directions: (1) Maybe you could learn from the Wesleyan tradition, and (2) How can I distinguish your theological trajectory from that which took United Methodism to where it is now (which to me, is an unhappy place)?

]]> Comment on Pastoral Care is Out the Window in Biblically Based Churches by admin http://ebablog.easumbandy.com/20080806/pastoral-care-is-out-the-window-in-biblically-based-churches/#comment-798 admin Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:39:53 +0000 http://ebablog.easumbandy.com/20080806/pastoral-care-is-out-the-window-in-biblically-based-churches/#comment-798 Well Rev Mommy, you missed my point. the point was the biblical role of the pastor isnt to do pastoral care. Eph. 4 and acts 6 discuss that. Therole of the pastor is to equip others to do pastor care among other things. which is more important that you role model or that you have a church that role models what it means to be church. Well Rev Mommy, you missed my point. the point was the biblical role of the pastor isnt to do pastoral care. Eph. 4 and acts 6 discuss that. Therole of the pastor is to equip others to do pastor care among other things. which is more important that you role model or that you have a church that role models what it means to be church.

]]> Comment on Pastoral Care is Out the Window in Biblically Based Churches by rev mommy http://ebablog.easumbandy.com/20080806/pastoral-care-is-out-the-window-in-biblically-based-churches/#comment-796 rev mommy Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:13:29 +0000 http://ebablog.easumbandy.com/20080806/pastoral-care-is-out-the-window-in-biblically-based-churches/#comment-796 I wonder if it is indeed mutually exclusive -- one of the most effective pastors I've ever seen (if not THE most effective) was also the most pastoral. I've always assumed that he was effective because he was so pastoral -- and that he proclaimed the gospel with a vengeance from the pulpit. He also was tremendously charismatic in his personality. The church grew from 200 to 1200 in 5 years. Leading is best done by example, in my humble opinion. I'm the first pastor in years that has visited the shut-ins, given communion to those in nursing homes and done any sort of counseling. They have not had "pastoring" in years -- after all, they are just tiny rural churches and stepping stones to a bigger "more important" appointment. I also spend a lot of time in sermon prep and visioning what these churches need and where they need to go. And for the first time in years, these churches are healthy. Isn't balance of both required? Will the church follow you if you don't model caring behavior? I wonder if it is indeed mutually exclusive — one of the most effective pastors I’ve ever seen (if not THE most effective) was also the most pastoral. I’ve always assumed that he was effective because he was so pastoral — and that he proclaimed the gospel with a vengeance from the pulpit. He also was tremendously charismatic in his personality. The church grew from 200 to 1200 in 5 years.

Leading is best done by example, in my humble opinion. I’m the first pastor in years that has visited the shut-ins, given communion to those in nursing homes and done any sort of counseling. They have not had “pastoring” in years — after all, they are just tiny rural churches and stepping stones to a bigger “more important” appointment. I also spend a lot of time in sermon prep and visioning what these churches need and where they need to go. And for the first time in years, these churches are healthy.

Isn’t balance of both required? Will the church follow you if you don’t model caring behavior?

]]> Comment on A Symptom of a Deep Sickness by t http://ebablog.easumbandy.com/20080805/a-symptom-of-a-deep-sickness/#comment-795 t Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:58:23 +0000 http://ebablog.easumbandy.com/20080805/a-symptom-of-a-deep-sickness/#comment-795 Thank you for saying what I would dare not say on my own blog, for fear of retribution. And yes, there would be indeed retribution. I've said things that have been unpopular before about the appointment system and was slapped down (once in public) for saying them. I am a seminary trained Local Pastor -- I get tired of pastors at annual conference looking to see what color your name tag is before they decided if they are going to talk to you. I'm tired of the "golden boy" syndrome. I'm tired of the golden boys who will decide not to talk to you if you are seen with THAT pastor. Just thanks. Thank you for saying what I would dare not say on my own blog, for fear of retribution. And yes, there would be indeed retribution. I’ve said things that have been unpopular before about the appointment system and was slapped down (once in public) for saying them.

I am a seminary trained Local Pastor — I get tired of pastors at annual conference looking to see what color your name tag is before they decided if they are going to talk to you. I’m tired of the “golden boy” syndrome. I’m tired of the golden boys who will decide not to talk to you if you are seen with THAT pastor.

Just thanks.

]]> Comment on The Six Signs of a Spiritually Dead Church, by Bill Easum by breitling replica watch http://ebablog.easumbandy.com/20080728/the-six-signs-of-a-spiritually-dead-church-by-bill-easum/#comment-730 breitling replica watch Fri, 15 Aug 2008 01:15:36 +0000 http://ebablog.easumbandy.com/20080728/the-six-signs-of-a-spiritually-dead-church-by-bill-easum/#comment-730 I found your blog via Google while searching, your post regarding The Six Signs of a Spiritually Dead Church, by Bill Easum looks very interesting for me. I found your blog via Google while searching, your post regarding The Six Signs of a Spiritually Dead Church, by Bill Easum looks very interesting for me.

]]> Comment on The Six Signs of a Spiritually Dead Church, by Bill Easum by Alex http://ebablog.easumbandy.com/20080728/the-six-signs-of-a-spiritually-dead-church-by-bill-easum/#comment-729 Alex Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:06:19 +0000 http://ebablog.easumbandy.com/20080728/the-six-signs-of-a-spiritually-dead-church-by-bill-easum/#comment-729 Your blog is interesting! Keep up the good work! Your blog is interesting!

Keep up the good work!

]]> Comment on A Symptom of a Deep Sickness by Dan http://ebablog.easumbandy.com/20080805/a-symptom-of-a-deep-sickness/#comment-728 Dan Wed, 13 Aug 2008 22:08:37 +0000 http://ebablog.easumbandy.com/20080805/a-symptom-of-a-deep-sickness/#comment-728 Very good, I thought that's what you would say, especially based on this article. I am surprised to hear that it has been going on for a while... I was thinking it might be a new development that was gaining steam. I have heard some grumbling about it from 'within the ranks' of pastors here. The mindset of putting in your time to get a bigger church has been dug in deep. Thanks again for your post. It's truly thought provoking, especially for someone months away from entering the appointment system! Very good, I thought that’s what you would say, especially based on this article. I am surprised to hear that it has been going on for a while… I was thinking it might be a new development that was gaining steam. I have heard some grumbling about it from ‘within the ranks’ of pastors here. The mindset of putting in your time to get a bigger church has been dug in deep. Thanks again for your post. It’s truly thought provoking, especially for someone months away from entering the appointment system!

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